Sports and the importance of size debate

[Ivich]

- - Nice to see you finally found a topic you could sink your teeth into with veracity.

John Henry also knocked out the great Satchel Paige if we wish to further embellish his formidable accomplishments...

You'd be surprised what I can sink my teeth into.
Eddie Futch named Lewis as the greatest light heavyweight he ever saw.
Please point out any inaccuracies in my earlier post.
NB Veracity means truthfulness, ie accuracy,I think you meant ferocity?

[QueensburyRules]

There are plenty of pictures of Primo in black *******i uniform giving the ******* salute. Nothing wrong with his ticker though.

- - When he visited Rome before the war, do as Romans do is the ancient motto dating back more than a thousand years.

Doesn't change the fact that WW 2 broke out, Primo fought against Mussolini.

[Dr. Z]

Has anyone actually looked close at Primo Carnera? Or is he merely (even on this board) defined by his connections to the mob, Hollywood, and legend, only.

All we ever see is highlights, him rolling on the canvas with Baer as we're suspose to laugh.

Has anyone studied his skill level, evaluated his resume, given him a second look?

I doubt most here have looked at Carrera's career in detail, studied his fights, his alleged fixed fights, or his overall ring record and drwan comparison to modern skilled super heavyweights of the past 30 years.

We get Ivich spamming the board with nonsense for replies.

[Willow The Wisp]

Yes, lets us talk skills IF you think size, height and reach matter ( they do ) at heavyweight. In you opinion do the skills of Carnera and Simon match those of Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko , and even Fury?

Good insight is appreciated!

Thank you Doc. I'll do my best....

Hell no. Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, Abe Simon, Jose Santa, Jack Pettifer, Ben Morosz, Ray Impelletiere, Gil Stromquist, Gogea Mitu, Ewart Potgieter, Jim Cully, etc were simply NOT as good as Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, Lennox Lewis, Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder...or even Andrew Golota/Rid**** Bowe.

But.... the first three, there on that Louis era list were every inch as good as Michael Grant, Leroy Jones, Tony Tucker, James Broad, John Tate, Jorge Luis Gonzalez, Bonecrusher Smith, Kevin McBride, Lou Savarese, Mariusz Wach, Ty Fields, Nikolay Valuev, Arslanbek Makhmudov, Evgeny Orlov, Julius Long, Lucas Browne, Richard Towers, David Price, Derrick Jefferson, Lance Whitaker, Tom Payne, Marcellus Brown, or pretty much any of the others beyond your short, short, short list of excellent modern day behemoths.

That there are more decent big heavyweights today verses 80 years ago is owning to the slow, incremental nudging up of the dufus cutoff, which is owing to a generational nudge up of medium adult size which is owing to global improvements in nutrition. I just see all of this as having less impact on the quality of the heavyweight division than I believe you do. An impact, Yes; But certainly not to the extent that Joe Louis couldn't cope. Not yet, but let's revisit the question in another 80 years.

[Ivich]

- - When he visited Rome before the war, do as Romans do is the ancient motto dating back more than a thousand years.

Doesn't change the fact that WW 2 broke out, Primo fought against Mussolini.

Carnera saw no active service against anyone.
END OF.

[Ivich]

I doubt most here have looked at Carrera's career in detail, studied his fights, his alleged fixed fights, or his overall ring record and drwan comparison to modern skilled super heavyweights of the past 30 years.

We get Ivich spamming the board with nonsense for replies.

Nobody is looking at CARRERA' S career because he does not. exist !
You illiterate buffoon!!!!!!

[WillieWild114]

In heavyweight boxing the top has been men of 205+ pounds since the 1990's and virtually everyone is above 6'1". Sure you may find one or two men during the past 30 years outside the permitters, but they are mostly " super heavyweights " dominating. Men over 6'2" tall wights over 220 pounds with at least a 76" reach.


This brings me to other sports besides boxing. Could the athletes of the 1920's -1980's compete today?

Football. Definitely not. The game is based on physicality and the size and speed of the players is much greater in the past. ALL football historians would agree

Baseball. Most of the new breed of top pitchers are taller men who throw 90+ mile an hour fast balls. The angle creates an unfair advantage for them and I hear they might have the lower the mound. The players are all bigger, and stronger in general, just like the heavyweights are today. The debate rages on whether player X can do as well now and he did in his era. I'm not a baseball guy, but I believe no they can not , but the best of them could still play.

Futbol. This sport does not require height or weight which is why a 5'7" man can be one of the best players today. It also does not allow use of your hands unless you play goaltender. At this position height and long arms is an advantage, and you won't find any short players at this spot.

Basketball. In this sport you seldom find many men under 6 feet tall. Obviously height and long arms matter big time. Sure you can find a guard under 6' feet that is the exception but they are uncommon. And they play defense, that is shorter guards that is.

Hockey. The average player now is 61" 205 pounds. The average defenseman is taller and heavier than that. And the goaltenders average 6'2" tall. So size matters here. Players now are much bigger and taller compared to decades past.


These are the major sports. Clearly boxing is different and has 17 weight classes in it which allows men ranging from 99 pounds to + 200 pounds to compete on an even playing field. But in the above sports you won't find men below the middleweight limit.Think about it. Okay if you look really hard enough you might.

Boxing is unique in many ways, including that some historians attach themselves to the past at heavyweight and think they could do well and beat modern athletes. They had a puncher's chance of course, but outside of that the game has passed many men below 6'1" 210 pounds by. Other historians of the above sports openly admit that today's athletes are better. Why can't boxing? Men this size are generally not ranked today at heavyweight and that is the division where there is the most money in general . The reason why men under this size don't opt for heavyweight is they can not do well enough otherwise they would try.

You must not be watching all sports. NFL and NBA players are smaller than the players that played in the 90’s and 2000’s. In the NFL now since Russell Wilson we have more QB’s shorter than 6’2. NFL game got more spreaded and the players have to be quicker so some positions are lighter than they was in the past it’s not unusual to find a 220 lb LineBacker that’s only 5’11 and a 5’9 180 lb Wide Receiver.

In the NBA since the game is less physical there are less 7 ft players in the game and the average nba players height shrunk by 2 inches this 2020 decade.

Wilder at 214 lb even though he is 6’7 shows past hw could probably still defeat bigger heavyweights look at 6’2 Uysk as well.

size matters in sports but is overrated

[QueensburyRules]

Carnera saw no active service against anyone.
END OF.

- - Yet another dead end by you, ie

• Carnera joined the Italian anti-******* partisans and was wounded by the ****s near Cremona, Italy, in 1943

Not state military services, a local guerilla group around an important crossroads town dating from ancient Roman times in Northern Italy.
Carnera-LaBarba.jpg

[QueensburyRules]

- - That's IBHOF Fidel LaBabara above/\

Primo and family US Citizenship Day~
Primo53.jpg

[Willie Pep 229]

When the consequences are tragic a common act can become heinous.

Carnera donned a black shirt for his title defense in Rome, and donated his purse to the *******s.

It made Italy love him, because in 1933 Italy loved Musolini.

Propaganda was fascism's most powerful early tool and that single jesture on Carnera's part was enough to launch an all out 'uberman' propaganda effort. The ******* press flooded the culture with posters, songs, films, and newsprint about the Italian superman.

Carnera spent most, if not all, of that period in the States. Carnera himself did little to no real promtion of fascism in the States.

Whether he ever fought against the *******s I can't say, but his 'black shirt' act in 1933 needs to be evaluated through the prism of the time.

It's the consequences of fascism that make his act seem so heinous, but for its time (Rome 1933) it was the right promotional move for a boxer looking to cash in on the title.

P.S. Just in case: Yes I think "cashing in on the title" is the right thing for a champion to do.