Sports and the importance of size debate

[JAB5239]

Who did he beat nearly a good and like Klitschko? Hitting a chinny man like Carrera so many times before the ref stopped to or taking a bipedal punching bag like Abe Simon 11 rounds means jack carp. We can see them on film. There are not in the class of modern super heavyweights with skill and certainly would not prepare Louis to fight one. The heavyweight division in Louis time was dog poop. Ring Magazine called it the most decades of heavyweight talent. And as we know Louis only fought two African American in title fights and zero Eastern Europeans Europeans in title fights.

Who were the eastern Europeans he should have fought? And Louis faced the best of his time, again and again. That's a far cry better than Vits who only fought what, 8 ring ranked contenders while missing out on 28? My my.

[Willie Pep 229]

Weakest era ever argument over and over.

If you can't attack the resume . . .

If you can't attack the results . . .

If you can't say he ducked anyone . . .

Then go with "the Weakest era ever" argument.

Judge a man by his accomplishments not by some personal 'eye test' that only serves to grandize the speaker

[Slugfester]

Dude, look.

Most people stopped growing in 1st world countries 50 years ago, so no, all these athletes aren't just bigger & stronger, they're juiced to the gills

Guys who would've been too big & gassed out because of their size, now have more endurance

Guys who would've been 205 are now 230.

You got it.

[Slugfester]

The Klitkos were maybe the first giants (6' 6" or taller) with any boxing talent on jump start chemicals. Pioneers, I guess they were. Many say that is why they are overrated-- the last generation that got to mop up the dwarfed vestiges of an antique division. Me? I am undecided. Tell me what you think.

[Ivich]

The Klitkos were maybe the first giants (6' 6" or taller) with any boxing talent on jump start chemicals. Pioneers, I guess they were. Many say that is why they are overrated-- the last generation that got to mop up the dwarfed vestiges of an antique division. Me? I am undecided. Tell me what you think.

Vitali was dropped from the Ukrainian Boxing squad for PED use.

[Dr. Z]

Who were the eastern Europeans he should have fought? And Louis faced the best of his time, again and again. That's a far cry better than Vits who only fought what, 8 ring ranked contenders while missing out on 28? My my.

You count is WRONG and Louis gave two black men title shots, one was a light heavy weight who could not see, the other was robbed by two judges on the score cards. That is impressive? He fought zero Eastern Europeans and the heavyweight he rest were small and a poor lot in general. Louis lost three times to sub 200 pound men, should have more on the cards, and is lucky fights were 15 rounds which allowed him to come back vs a 168 pound Billy Conn. Keep kidding your self. You know I'm right.

If this were track and field Louis won the 100 yard dash vs British and American white guys! He is the best I'm telling you and can't be compared to anyone else! The overall talent he fought exposed him, was small in many cases and flat out not that good in others. Compare the ring records of his opponents to other accomplished super heavyweights. Why not? Comes on I dare ya! And keep pretending that who he beat would be rated today at heavyweight besides a select few. It's actually less Vitali fought that were ring ranked.

[Ivich]

You count is WRONG and Louis gave two black men title shots, one was a light heavy weight who could not see, the other was robbed by two judges on the score cards. That is impressive? He fought zero Eastern Europeans and the heavyweight he rest were small and a poor lot in general. Louis lost three times to sub 200 pound men, should have more on the cards, and is lucky fights were 15 rounds which allowed him to come back vs a 168 pound Billy Conn. Keep kidding your self. You know I'm right.

If this were track and field Louis won the 100 yard dash vs British and American white guys! He is the best I'm telling you and can't be compared to anyone else! The overall talent he fought exposed him, was small in many cases and flat out not that good in others. Compare the ring records of his opponents to other accomplished super heavyweights. Why not? Comes on I dare ya! And keep pretending that who he beat would be rated today at heavyweight besides a select few. It's actually less Vitali fought that were ring ranked.

Which Eastern Europeans SHOULD HE HAVE FOUGHT?

Lewis had defended his light heavyweight title against the number 1 contender Al Gainer just 3 months before he challenged Louis.
John Henry beat 46 men who were over the light heavyweight limit!

Including
Gastana
Ray
Risko
Barry
Burman
Perroni
Reddish
Ettore
He developed a detached retina, he wasn't blind , you bloody CRETIN !

[Rockin']

Chris Byrd is no bigger than Joe Choyinski and not half as scientific, yet Byrd earned a stoppage TKO over modern sized Vitali Klitschko.

Being big and strong is fine, but true skill and speed are even finer. Drop in explosive power and you have a future great.

I loved watching him make those bulky fighters look silly.

Chris Byrd: Truely skilled....................Rockin'

[Willow The Wisp]

Weakest era ever argument over and over.

If you can't attack the resume . . .

If you can't attack the results . . .

If you can't say he ducked anyone . . .

Then go with "the Weakest era ever" argument.

Judge a man by his accomplishments not by some personal 'eye test' that only serves to grandize the speaker

Brilliant.

[Willow The Wisp]

Who did he beat nearly a good and like Klitschko? Hitting a chinny man like Carrera so many times before the ref stopped to or taking a bipedal punching bag like Abe Simon 11 rounds means jack carp. We can see them on film. There are not in the class of modern super heavyweights with skill and certainly would not prepare Louis to fight one. The heavyweight division in Louis time was dog poop. Ring Magazine called it the most decades of heavyweight talent. And as we know Louis only fought two African American in title fights and zero Eastern Europeans Europeans in title fights.

Heavyweights are unique in boxing in that unlike capped weight classes, they've grown bigger with each 20 year block, and sure as ****, size is a "skill" in and of itself. So the "dufus cutoff" continously is nudged upward.

But mass alone doesn't overcome all the other important factors involved such as decade over decade decreases in subtile skill....the thing that experienced trainers have talked about for decades. Time traveling George Foreman who won the gold in 68' and came back to win the title in the 1990s offers a single glimpse of what they're taling about.

Repeating myself, I have tremendous respect for the overall compitency of Wladimir Klitschko, although, provocative statements suchlike "Hitting a chinny man like Carrera so many times before the ref stopped to or taking a bipedal punching bag like Abe Simon 11 rounds means jack carp" serve only to undercut Dr. Z'S argument. Entirely.
Absolutely entirely.

The reality is that a ranked Primo Carnera was repeatedly hit flush by a man big and fast and powerful enough at 200 to KO anyone ever, and Carnera kept getting up for more. I saw almost all of the best "modern giants" felled by lesser punchers and fewer punches.
If Abe Simon could find a way to Nail Jersey Joe Walcott and knock him out, he could be expected to do the very same to anyone that Pele Reid or Ross Puritty could find. Call it hyperbole returned in kind.

I respect today's fighters and I know many of them, but people haven't gotten better at fighting in the past 80 years. Not under MOQ rules.

The weird reframe about "No Eastern Europeans" participating prior to the 21st century is specious and devoid of study. Fighters come from places changing based on economic and political conditions producing a climate for making money from the public display of Prizefighting. We can take a deeper dive at anyone's request, but for now, know that Eastern European participation simply fills a void left by cultural decrease in participation in the US, Germany, Italy, Scandinavia, France, Japan, Korea, Argentina, Spain, and other former boxing hotbeds when economics have improved.

And in addition, check out the ethnicities of those 1900 - 1960 immigrants to the US who filled the ranks of professional boxing. Today, eastern Europeans can simply get their start in their home country instead of in their new country- the only difference.

All things to be considered.