Rating Rocky Marciano's resume

[Willow The Wisp]

As it should be....

160 Middleweight
168 Super Middleweight
175 Light Heavyweight
185 Mid Heavyweight
200 Cruiserweight
215 Bridgerweight
Unlimited Heavyweight

[DeeMoney]

As it should be....

160 Middleweight
168 Super Middleweight
175 Light Heavyweight
185 Mid Heavyweight
200 Cruiserweight
215 Bridgerweight
Unlimited Heavyweight

Like the general premise, but I'd say get rid of Mid Heavy and instead drop Cruiserweight back down to its original 190. Then change the name of Bridgerweight (just don't like the name) to Super Cruiserweight, and maybe have it sit at 210 though I could be swayed to 215.

And yes, as always, the top uncapped weight is heavyweight

[Willie Pep 229]

As it should be....

160 Middleweight
168 Super Middleweight
175 Light Heavyweight
185 Mid Heavyweight
200 Cruiserweight
215 Bridgerweight
Unlimited Heavyweight

I like the premise but like DeeMoney I don't like "bridgeweight" as a name.

What I wonder about is a 230 pound man trying to cut down to 215 to make weight.

Can the big boys cut weight like us little guys can? Most big guys always look like they just want to get bigger.

When these big boys do cut weight just how much bigger will they get when they rehydrate?

I think we need an adjustment to the current weights because men are just bigger today. But 200 plus should still be a HW.


MW (165)
SMW (175)
LHW (185)
Cruiserweight (200)
HW (Unlimited)

[DeeMoney]

I find it interesting that the OP brings up Marciano's weight and size as being something that should be measured in his favor in regards to fighting smaller heavyweights, "Marciano himself weighed only about 187 pounds. Fighting former light heavyweights was completely fair, given his own size..." In a way measuring heavyweights in a pound-for-pound sense. Am wondering if this is something that others here do (not wanting to re-open the can of worms that deals with whether older heavyweights were too small to deal with modern heavies though)?

I do appreciate his bringing up Holyfield's losses in that so often we seem to never bring up actual losses when discussing legacy, resume, greatness. It only seems to be 'Given Fighter' beat this great opponent, or 'Given Fighter' fought this great opponent. But the truth is, there should be some sort of penalty for losing (though less of one for losing to a great fighter). That being written half of Holyfield's losses came when he was in his 40s, and 70% came when he was in his late 30s or beyond. We tend not to evaluate fighters legacies on what they did when old and clearly past their primes. You can count these losses against them, just that they don't count as much.

[Biledriver]

I think Marciano is a legit ATG, but I think he gets WAY too much mileage for that 0. Post WWII up until the mid-'50s was a weak era for heavyweights and that has a lot to do with that undefeated record. Truth be told, I think LaStarza beat him in their first fight (and so did most of the sportswriters who covered the fight).

[Marchegiano]

Correct me if I am wrong here apples. You can even call me a dumbass and I'll just laugh because there's a decent chance they all got it and I am the one who didn't. It does seem like everyone got the same thing out of this post and since it is not what I inferred I'm a little insecure about my position.



I believe the heart of this post is simply:



Fans rate men based on successes while ignoring or excusing failure. This criteria is obviously bias against Marciano; he has none to ignore and the ignoring for others throws away his strongest statistic while exalt others' stats who failed them at various points in their careers.

The rest of this is expansion based on that idea. So if I was wrong to go that direction I am wrong throughout this post.



Even the computer ratings work this way. I defy you to find me any, including the OGs and the currents, any rating that has mechanism for deduction.


​
So you can tell me "but context doe" while ignoring that when the subject is Marciano.




Dempsey can duck a race, excuse, context doe.

Marciano better pull a 21st century super heavy out of the future to be beaten up in the ****in 50s for that context to not hit him in the ass doe.



I don't have to tell anyone what I think of that dichotomy. All I have to do is announce its presence and ****ers will get to their defensive positions straight away.






Dempsey ducked a race

Marciano's best are old men




Dempsey ducked a race

Marciano's best are just LHW and CW at best




If held by the same standard, and that standard being the context of his era is no excuse, then Jack Dempsey isn't even a champion but don't let that stop you from calling apples and I bias.

[Bronson66]

I think Marciano is a legit ATG, but I think he gets WAY too much mileage for that 0. Post WWII up until the mid-'50s was a weak era for heavyweights and that has a lot to do with that undefeated record. Truth be told, I think LaStarza beat him in their first fight (and so did most of the sportswriters who covered the fight).

The man in question.

[QueensburyRules]

I like the premise but like DeeMoney I don't like "bridgeweight" as a name.

What I wonder about is a 230 pound man trying to cut down to 215 to make weight.

Can the big boys cut weight like us little guys can? Most big guys always look like they just want to get bigger.

When these big boys do cut weight just how much bigger will they get when they rehydrate?

I think we need an adjustment to the current weights because men are just bigger today. But 200 plus should still be a HW.


MW (165)
SMW (175)
LHW (185)
Cruiserweight (200)
HW (Unlimited)

- - WBC BrigetteWeight = Mo' sanctioning and prize $$$.

Guarantee if you gave fat son of Jose a million dollars, he'd make a weight class for you along with a title.

[Mr Mitts]

I like the premise but like DeeMoney I don't like "bridgeweight" as a name.

What I wonder about is a 230 pound man trying to cut down to 215 to make weight.

Can the big boys cut weight like us little guys can? Most big guys always look like they just want to get bigger.

When these big boys do cut weight just how much bigger will they get when they rehydrate?

I think we need an adjustment to the current weights because men are just bigger today. But 200 plus should still be a HW.


MW (165)
SMW (175)
LHW (185)
Cruiserweight (200)
HW (Unlimited)

Where did your signature come from?

[Mr Mitts]

Now let's look at Rocky's opponents.
His first 5 were under185lbs,3 of them inside the light heavy limit.
Rocky's
8th opponent was 1-5-0
9th A debutee
10th 2-2-0 and172lbs
12th 4-16-0
14th 7-10-0
15th 9-15-1
27th 22-20-5
32nd 8-8-1
33rd 7-13-3
34th 3-15-1
35th11-14-2
Seven of the 11 had losing records

Liston's
8th opponent was19-6-2 , 7th ranked light heavyweight Marty Marshall ,Liston, fighting with a broken jaw lost a split decision.
9th 13-9-1
10th Marshall 22-8-1
12th 5-2-0
14th 39-24-2
15th Marshall 24-10-2
27thBesmanoff 42-17-7
32nd Machen 34-2-7
33rd KIng 40-21-8
34th Westphal 24-8-3
35th Patterson for the title.

All the eleven had winning records
Now before you resort to that hackneyed excuse."well Rocky had only a handful of amateur fights,he was learning on the job"
Marciano's amateur record 14-4-0.
Liston's 11-1-0.
In his 6th and 7th fights Liston fought18-1-2 Johnny Summerlin Michigan State Champion whose only loss was on a cut eye.This was in1954Summerlin was the heavy favourite.Summerlin would be ranked no 7 the following year. Liston fought only one man with a losing record, Ponce De Leon.

Holyfield in his 12 th pro fight fought
12th Qawi 26-2-1
14th Tillman 14-1-0
16th Ocasio 26-2-1
18th DeLeon 44-4-0
20th Thomas 29-2-1
21stDokes 37-2-1
25th Douglas Champ

Holyfield's resume includes;
Bowe x3 no3,no1,no3
Tyson x2no 2 ,no 2
Rahman no4
Dokes no5
DouglasChamp
Holmes
Foreman no10
Thomas no5
Cooper
Moorer x2 no4
Qawi x2 no 3,no 3. Cruiser
DeLeon no 1 Cruiser
Stewart x2
Ruiz x3 no 5 ,no 5, no 4
Valuev no5
Lewis x2 no2 ,no2
Ibragimov no 6

Yes he had some losses.but do you think Marciano would have a clean sheet against those names, especially when he was past 30?

Marciano has one of the most protected resumes of the heavyweight champions, up until his 27th fight with Lastarza ,who was himself a weak punching ,protected fighter.
Rocky was a great fighter ,but,imo fortunate to come along when the previous era of top men were past their prime,and his post war contemporaries were not stellar competition.
Would Brion,****ell,Lastarza.Mathews,even get a smell of a ranking today?

How long would the 4 of them last with Liston,Bowe,Lewis,Holyfield?

What a man Holyfield is!