Marciano & Usyk- They beat the best, but at what age?

[Willow The Wisp]

The only two Undefeated Heavyweight Champions, and their 4 BEST heavyweight opponents, and their age at time of the fight(s)......
Rocky Marciano's top 4 opponents:

Ezzard Charles
32 years 11 mos
33 years 5 mos

Joe Louis
37 years 5 mos

Jersey Joe Walcott
38 years 4 mos
39 years 3 mos

Archie Moore
41 years 8 mos



Oleksandr Usyk's top 4 opponents:

Tyson Fury
35 years 9 mos
36 years 8 mos

Daniel Dubois
25 years 11 mos

Anthony Joshua
31 years 10 mos
32 years.10 mos

Derek Chisora
36 years 10 mos.


What, if any conclusions can we draw by examining these ages?

What are the critics always harping on regarding Marciano's record?

Do fighters last longer these days... and did the 8 challengers listed?

[max baer]

The only two Undefeated Heavyweight Champions, and their 4 BEST heavyweight opponents, and their age at time of the fight(s)......
Rocky Marciano's top 4 opponents:

Ezzard Charles
32 years 11 mos
33 years 5 mos

Joe Louis
37 years 5 mos

Jersey Joe Walcott
38 years 4 mos
39 years 3 mos

Archie Moore
41 years 8 mos



Oleksandr Usyk's top 4 opponents:

Tyson Fury
35 years 9 mos
36 years 8 mos

Daniel Dubois
25 years 11 mos

Anthony Joshua
31 years 10 mos
32 years.10 mos

Derek Chisora
36 years 10 mos.


What, if any conclusions can we draw by examining these ages?

What are the critics always harping on regarding Marciano's record?

Do fighters last longer these days... and did the 8 challengers listed?

I feel that has always been thought about rocky, that while he never lost he had easier foes and that is something critics argue about him.
I loved what rocky was about that 50's america wholesome and drive by's and like back to the future type of america.
But i believe ali would have destroyed rocky easily in all honesty. I think ali's new way of dancing around the ring would have just made fun of rocky. I read years ago that after louis and rocky the boxing press liked men who stood and slugged it out and the old guard didn't like ali's dancing around they thought ali should stand a fight like a man as that is what they thought a heavyweight should do.
I think rocky was a great champion but his big fights were with older men and that will always be a mark against his name. Great thread willow.

[DeeMoney]

I don't know if the numbers show what you think they show, there is a pretty big gap in age range between the two sets. The average age of Marciano's opponents listed is 37 years and two months, for Usyk's its 33 years and 4 months. Thats nearly a 4 year gap in age range, thats a fairly substantial difference; especially when you consider that the median number between the two is 35 years old, an age which has often been cited as a general 'past their prime' number in boxing.

Not only were Rock's opponents here on average significantly older thank Usyk's, Rocky was younger than all of them, by an avaerage of about 7-and-a-half years I believe. Conversely, Usyk was older than all his opponents save for Chisora. Not to mention, half of Rocky's opponents listed saw their prime at a lighter weight than heavyweight and had since moved up, it is the inverse for Usyk.

Please don't take any of that to be a slight on Marciano, he is an all time legend and deservedly so, but the facts are the facts and it should be noted as it is answering the question.

As for the question as to whether fighters last longer today? I absolutely believe they do, as do all athletes. Medicine and training available to elite athletes is insane nowadays, they are far better taken care of than those even 50 years ago, let alone in Marciano's days. Look at the likes of Tom Brady and Lebron James, they were able to maintain near peak performances into their 40s. Yes, the games themselves are less physically rugged (Qbs are protected and this isnt 1990s NBA), but so much of that is due to the recovery treatments available to athletes. Top modern athletes have the ability extend their primes out longer when compared to those of years gone by.

[DeeMoney]

Similarly to Marciano's age gap for his top wins is that of Canelo Alvarez. He has 5 wins against current or probable future HOFers: Cotto, Mosley, Kovalez, Golovkin (x2). The average age of those fighters at the time of defeat was 37 years 10 months, each of them were over 35 in the fight. Additionally, Alvaraez was on average 10 years younger than his opponent in those fights.

[Marchegiano]

I'm not sure DDD or Del are top for Usyk. Unless HW exclusively. I think it is fair to compare his CW run though.

[Willow The Wisp]

I'm not sure DDD or Del are top for Usyk. Unless HW exclusively. I think it is fair to compare his CW run though.

Sure. A Cruiserweight is a heavyweight just before he takes a piss anyway, and average during Rocky's time. But Glowacki, Huck, Mchunu, Hunter, Briedis, Bellew and Gassiev didn't go forth to conquer the world after Usyk either.
Gassiev did the most, and stopped short of Otto Wallin.

[QueensburyRules]

The only two Undefeated Heavyweight Champions, and their 4 BEST heavyweight opponents, and their age at time of the fight(s)......
Rocky Marciano's top 4 opponents:

Ezzard Charles
32 years 11 mos
33 years 5 mos

Joe Louis
37 years 5 mos

Jersey Joe Walcott
38 years 4 mos
39 years 3 mos

Archie Moore
41 years 8 mos



Oleksandr Usyk's top 4 opponents:

Tyson Fury
35 years 9 mos
36 years 8 mos

Daniel Dubois
25 years 11 mos

Anthony Joshua
31 years 10 mos
32 years.10 mos

Derek Chisora
36 years 10 mos.


What, if any conclusions can we draw by examining these ages?

What are the critics always harping on regarding Marciano's record?

Do fighters last longer these days... and did the 8 challengers listed?

- - What, you need help?

[Marchegiano]

Sure. A Cruiserweight is a heavyweight just before he takes a piss anyway, and average during Rocky's time. But Glowacki, Huck, Mchunu, Hunter, Briedis, Bellew and Gassiev didn't go forth to conquer the world after Usyk either.
Gassiev did the most, and stopped short of Otto Wallin.

I'd argue Hunter and Briedis actually but it's a fair point all the same.

Hunter hasn't done bad perse, just very tepid. That said, pretty sure he's put on performances Chisora simply doesn't have in him. Their accolade peak at intercon regionals so .. ya know.

Daniel, just a timing thing. Seems a bit green compared to Usyk. It's a good win but again I'd say debatable with Briedis who was a bit aged but still quality.


TBH I never thought much of Gassiev.

Liston, Walcott, and Dempsey, for example, didn't light up the world after their losses either.

[Nash out]

Fury is shot to bits now, very slow, and not even top 10. Lost all his speed, stamina, and punch resistance due to lifestyle and 3 wars with Wilder and barnburners with Wlad, Cunningham, and Kevin Johnson. Prime Fury beats Usyk easily. Also, Wilder has since been cloned and the clone lost to Zhang and Parker, not the real Wilder, who is MIA and possibly living secretly with Tupac somewhere. Nash out - His Majesty

[Anomalocaris]

I agree that Fury was shot by the time he met Usyk.

Regardless of his health problems Covid took another 2 year chunk out of his career.

That is massive.

It's such a shame, people forget it now but a prime Tyson gives any heavy who ever lived a nightmare.

And he has never been stopped either.

The Resurrection was one of the most incredible moments in boxing history, sheer iron will, sheer guts.