Sports and the importance of size debate

[QueensburyRules]

Sorry man, just havi'n a little fun with ya. The texture of most field games has evolved at a much different pace than has boxing. That's a whole adjacent discussion. Heavyweights do get bigger.

- - Boxing goes back quite a bit further than field games as far as professionals go compared to field games, thus has had more time to develop.

Since it's one on one, it's easier to view and simpler to understand, unless the ref and/or judges are incompetent or crooked. Unfortunately, it never developed the transparency needed to grow further, and since it spent most years as an illegal sport, it has little history of being able to shake that image with the proper investment of development like the other sports have, especially today that we see in the US with football, basketball, and soccer that are officially INDUSTRIES!!!.

Baseball was never an outlaw sport, but players were often rowdy, drunk, and in a lot of fights because of the barnstorming history of the sport took the players away from their families for extended periods of time. Even Ty Cobb ventured to Cuba for the riches of Cuban Winter ball.

All that said, facts still remain that the populace is growing taller in general, heavier in general, and blubbered in particular within the US that has become epidemic proportions because of better healthcare, more civilized living conditions, but also softer in the general sense of physicality of needing a team of health professionals manage their physical and mental well being.

God help em if they break a nail...

[Ivich]

While modern day baseball players are all jacked up looking like football players, it still requires the eye, timing and form to hit a 90 MPH fastball. I think baseball players of 100 years ago could compete today. Babe Ruth swung a 54 ounce bat, I watched some modern home run hitters try swinging it at a home run derby and they couldn’t believe how he could have possibly swung that heavy lumbar and put balls over the fence. I can remember when pitchers played double-headers (Ruth did it when he started out his career as a pitcher)! Now they have pitch counts and get pulled out in the 7th inning.

The heavyweight division is the glory division partly because you can have a 5’10” Mike Tyson blast out a 6’5” 245 pound Olympic Gold Medalist like Tyrell Biggs, or Dempsey the cruiserweight dismantling Willard, or Usyk the blown up cruiser defeating 6’6” Joshua 2x. A lot of boxing insiders were pushing for a Super Heavyweight division when the Klitschkos and Lewis were on top and all these huge HW’s were dominating the sport. It likely would have diluted the division and the talent pool at HW and SHW would have been shallow.

Old time trainers from a century ago talked about drying out their fighters in the 24 hours leading to the same day weigh-ins. Helping a fighter lose 10-15 pounds dehydrating and not eating a bite to make weight for a division they probably should not have been fighting in. I find it humorous when casual fans talk about how much bigger and stronger fights are today. They don’t think 160 pound middleweights were draining down to get there. 160 pounds weighs the same in 1940 as it does today, lol.

Good post,just one quibble Biggs weighed under 229lbs for Tyson.

[Willow The Wisp]

Byrd is 6 '2 " and for Vitali weighed 210.3/4lbs ie the same size as Max Baer .

Choynski was 5'11"and seldom scaled over 168lbs .

What fights have you seen of Choynski to make an evaluation about his and Byrd's respective skills?
Vitali retired with an injury you are implying Byrd tko'd him.

Baby fat at 210.



I read, read, read !

[Ivich]

Baby fat at 210.



I read, read, read !

You won't read anymore,I just took your eyes out! lol

[Clegg]

Comparing team sports to individual is misleading imo. Easier for an individual to get away with flaws when a teammate can pick up the slack. Looking at individual sports, why are the top 100M runners not 6'7? How about tennis players? Swimmers?

But really boxing can't be evenly compared to other sports because of the mentality. The vast majority of people do not have the mentality to be a pro fighter, so their size and talent are useless. Of those that do, a lot of them have other flaws that can be exposed. Wlad was incredibly talented, great jab, powerful right hand, could throw combinations with great technique. If you watch Wlad in his 10th fight or 20th fight, he looks better than Lennox did at the same stage imo. But he had more flaws and the same could be true of the next generation of 6'7 heavyweights.

Look at David Price. Looked the part at 6'8, could box behind a long jab or destroy with power shots. How much did his size help him in all those loses? And he was an Olympic medallist with TV backing not just a random prospect.

When AJ was undefeated, a lot of people said that the likes of Louis and Marciano were too small to beat him. But then AJ loses to Ruiz, who is inferior to Louis in every area and about the same height. Then a few fights later AJ loses to an even smaller guy and goes on a rant about not being able to do what the smaller man Marciano could do.

As others have said, steroid use also makes it harder to judge. We know Fury tested positive, maybe without his use he wouldn't have the strength or endurance to have won certain fights. We know he got caught once, maybe he is still using now. Considering his known motivation issues, perhaps a clean Fury doesn't even make it through training camp for any of these fantasy fight wins of his.

[Dr. Z]

Comparing team sports to individual is misleading imo. Easier for an individual to get away with flaws when a teammate can pick up the slack. Looking at individual sports, why are the top 100M runners not 6'7? How about tennis players? Swimmers?

But really boxing can't be evenly compared to other sports because of the mentality. The vast majority of people do not have the mentality to be a pro fighter, so their size and talent are useless. Of those that do, a lot of them have other flaws that can be exposed. Wlad was incredibly talented, great jab, powerful right hand, could throw combinations with great technique. If you watch Wlad in his 10th fight or 20th fight, he looks better than Lennox did at the same stage imo. But he had more flaws and the same could be true of the next generation of 6'7 heavyweights.

Look at David Price. Looked the part at 6'8, could box behind a long jab or destroy with power shots. How much did his size help him in all those loses? And he was an Olympic medallist with TV backing not just a random prospect.

When AJ was undefeated, a lot of people said that the likes of Louis and Marciano were too small to beat him. But then AJ loses to Ruiz, who is inferior to Louis in every area and about the same height. Then a few fights later AJ loses to an even smaller guy and goes on a rant about not being able to do what the smaller man Marciano could do.

As others have said, steroid use also makes it harder to judge. We know Fury tested positive, maybe without his use he wouldn't have the strength or endurance to have won certain fights. We know he got caught once, maybe he is still using now. Considering his known motivation issues, perhaps a clean Fury doesn't even make it through training camp for any of these fantasy fight wins of his.

Price was a glass jawed stiff englishman who happen to be big. Not a skilled super heavyweight and never accomplished much as an amateur. Fellas the heavyweight game has changed quite a bit since Marciano and Louis. Major USA sports in general are all athletes above 175 and have gotten MUCH bigger and taller. For some reason only boxing teams to think athletes from 1920-1970 would be one top of the heavyweight division today. In most cases heck no, they would not.

Fury is a PED cheater and known fouler ( he has docked 5 points in several fights already ) who fights the OLD, fat and non raked men in general.

[JAB5239]

Price was a glass jawed stiff englishman who happen to be big. Not a skilled super heavyweight and never accomplished much as an amateur. Fellas the heavyweight game has changed quite a bit since Marciano and Louis. Major USA sports in general are all athletes above 175 and have gotten MUCH bigger and taller. For some reason only boxing teams to think athletes from 1920-1970 would be one top of the heavyweight division today. In most cases heck no, they would not.

Fury is a PED cheater and known fouler ( he has docked 5 points in several fights already ) who fights the OLD, fat and non raked men in general.

Price never accomplished much as an amateur?? He wasn't a great pro by any means, but he was VERY accomplished as an amateur. Unless I'm thinking of someone else.

[QueensburyRules]

Price never accomplished much as an amateur?? He wasn't a great pro by any means, but he was VERY accomplished as an amateur. Unless I'm thinking of someone else.

- - Been drinkin' from your still.

Be still your venal heart...

[JAB5239]

- - Been drinkin' from your still.

Be still your venal heart...

........

[Dr. Z]

Price never accomplished much as an amateur?? He wasn't a great pro by any means, but he was VERY accomplished as an amateur. Unless I'm thinking of someone else.

No he didn't Price did not accomplish much as an amateur. He won bonze in the Olympics due to Jaksto injuring himself and have to withdraw ( the same man stooped him before ) and that was his crowing achievement. Now do you agree with the first post of the tread or not?