What if Gene Tunnney was un-defeated in 60+ fights?

[Dr Z]

Gene Tunney is 65-1-1 at Box Rec.


But consider this:

I think Tunney was an outstanding boxer with a sterling record to match. He was never down except for the match vs. Dempsey, though I could be mistaken as new information comes on the old timers every do often. He retired in his prime, not sticking around to face Schemling, or Sharkey though I think he would have beaten them both in 1929 and 1930. And he did offer a past his prime Wills a fight.


I think his first fight with Greb he should be the winner on DQ or at least the fight should have been a No Contest.


Consider this news which there is no know film of:


According to various accounts, there are claims that Harry Greb used fouls during his fight against Gene Tunney on May 23, 1922, where he handed Tunney his only official defeat. Tunney himself described the fight in detail, mentioning the brutality and suggesting that Greb employed tactics that could be considered fouls:

• Tunney noted that Greb was using every trick and foul he had learned in his boxing career, which included headbutting Tunney multiple times during their bout. This is supported by reports that Tunney's nose was broken and his face was severely cut during the fight.
• There are also claims that Greb was known for appealing to illicit resources during fights, including in this match against Tunney, where he allegedly headbutted Tunney to break his nasal septum in round one.

There was a lot of blood on Tunney's face, but he was a not retreat no surrender type of fighter and went 15 hard rounds with the busted nose and his face covered in blood. When the fight ended, the crowd gave him a standing ovation for his courage. 9 out of 10 guys would have quit.

So in theory he could have been undefeated if the fouls by Greb were called and the fight he officially lost in the 5 fight series was ruled a NC or DQ. A great what if.

[billeau2]

I'll tell you something z. I actually think Tunney kind of gets credit and is usually mistakenly even thought of as being undefeated. So I don't believe it makes much difference. Either way you slice it Tuny was a beast and one of the best light heavies ever.

[watson01]

Gene Tunney is 61-1-1 at Box Rec.


But consider this:

I think Tunney was an outstanding boxer with a sterling record to match. He was never down except for the match vs. Dempsey, though I could be mistaken as new information comes on the old timers every do often. He retired in his prime, not sticking around to face Schemling, or Sharkey though I think he would have beaten them both in 1929 and 1930. And he did offer a past his prime Wills a fight.


I think his first fight with Greb he should be the winner on DQ or at least the fight should have been a No Contest.


Consider this news which there is no know film of:


According to various accounts, there are claims that Harry Greb used fouls during his fight against Gene Tunney on May 23, 1922, where he handed Tunney his only official defeat. Tunney himself described the fight in detail, mentioning the brutality and suggesting that Greb employed tactics that could be considered fouls:

• Tunney noted that Greb was using every trick and foul he had learned in his boxing career, which included headbutting Tunney multiple times during their bout. This is supported by reports that Tunney's nose was broken and his face was severely cut during the fight.
• There are also claims that Greb was known for appealing to illicit resources during fights, including in this match against Tunney, where he allegedly headbutted Tunney to break his nasal septum in round one.

There was a lot of blood on Tunney's face, but he was a not retreat no surrender type of fighter and went 15 hard rounds with the busted nose and his face covered in blood. When the fight ended, the crowd gave him a standing ovation for his courage. 9 out of 10 guys would have quit.

So in theory he could have been undefeated if the fouls by Greb were called and the fight he officially lost in the 5 fight series was ruled a NC or DQ. A great what if.

Tunney’s resilience in his bout with Greb is undeniable, and while Greb’s tactics were rough, they were common in that era. Despite the loss, Tunney’s career remains legendary—his dominance, tactical brilliance, and undefeated streak after that fight solidify his greatness.

[BKM-]

And with all due respect, atleast we got to actually SEE how good he was. To me he defines the term "ahead of his time".

[Bronson66]

i'll tell you something z. I actually think tunney kind of gets credit and is usually mistakenly even thought of as being undefeated. So i don't believe it makes much difference. Either way you slice it tuny was a beast and one of the best light heavies ever.

Edited

[Willow The Wisp]

I agree. Tunney was one of the very best fighters of the 1920s, and the 1920s was one of the very best decades in boxing history.

[Anomalocaris]

Tunney was simply a magnificent light heavy -so incredibly skilled and way ahead of his time.

Fun fact.

He used to lightly spar with Hemingway, one time 'Papa' (being the utter c**t he actually was) tried to sucker punch Gene.

Only to see a lightening fast rock hard fist stop within half an inch of his face and Tunney warning him - 'Never do that again'.

[billeau2]

Knocked down twice,the other boxer to accomplish it was Leo Houck,and Tunney's record is actually
65-1-1.
For me the calibre of the opponents is of paramount importance,quality,over quantity.

A lot of people seem to believe, because technically Tunny was undefeated as a heavyweight, that he was undefeated. Even though this isn't true and we know better, this idea permeates opinions about him...

Agree about Quality over Quantity.

[Marchegiano]

A lot of people seem to believe, because technically Tunny was undefeated as a heavyweight, that he was undefeated. Even though this isn't true and we know better, this idea permeates opinions about him...

Agree about Quality over Quantity.

This

What survives really for most fans is Tunney retired his title. That's probably why folks love to rate him an ATG HW. With all of what 3 HW fights?


Outside of that, I'm honestly shocked at Bronson's acceptance of Boxrec on Tunney. 65-1-1. says who exactly? Why exactly?



Gene Tunney's record so says Das Marche:

1. Jul 2 Bobby Dawson New York, NY TK 8
2. Aug 7 Battling Genrimo New York, NY KO 3
3. Aug 28 George Lahey New York, NY KO 2
4. Dec 8 Young Guarini New York, NY TK 8
5. Dec 15 Young Sharkey New York, NY KO 6
6. Dec 29 Sailor Wolfe New York, NY KO 2
7. Dec 21 "Young" Joe Borrell New York, NY KO 2
8. Jan 15 Hughey Weir New York, NY KO 2
9. Jul 8 Young Guarini Jersey City, NJ KO 1
10. Hank Wuerhl Romarantin, Fr KO 3
11. Johnny Newton Romarantin, Fr KO 6
12. Dec 5 Victor "K.O." Marchand Paris, Fr KO 2
13. Dec Howard Morrow Romarantin, Fr KO 6
14. Dec Tommy Gavigan Romarantin, Fr D 12
15. Jan 31 "Fighting" Bob Martin Paris, Fr W 4
16. Mar 24 Indian Lewis Tours, Fr KO 1
17. Mar 31 Dare Davis Tours, Fr KO 3
18. Apr 14 K.O. Sullivan Paris, Fr W 10
19. Apr 26 Ted Jamieson Paris, Fr W 10
20. Dec 29 Bob Pearce Newark, NJ TK 2
21. Jan 1 Whitey Allen Bayonne, NJ KO 2
22. Jan 20 Bud Nelson Bayonne, NJ KO 1
23. Jan 26 Jim Monahan Jersey City, NJ TK 1
24. Feb 2 Al Roberts Newark, NJ KO 8
25. Mar 4 Ed Kinley Jersey City, NJ KO 5
26. Apr 5 K.O. Sullivan Newark, NJ KO 1
27. Apr 9 Jack Clifford Binghamton, NY KO 3
28. Jun 7 Jeff Madden Jersey City, NJ TK 2
29. Jun 28 Ole Anderson Jersey City, NJ TK 3
30. Oct 22 "Sergeant" Ray Smith Camden, NJ TK 2
31. Jun 28 Johnny "Young" Ambrose New York, NY KO 1
32. Jul 2 Horace "Soldier" Jones Jersey City, NJ TK 7
33. Aug 4 Martin Burke New York, NY W 10
34. Aug 18 Eddie Josephs Staten Island, NY W 12
35. Sep 26 Herbert Crossley Brooklyn, NY W 7
36. Oct 14 Jack Burke New York, NY TK 3
37. Oct 25 Magnus "Wolf" Larsen New York, NY TK 7
38. Dec 22 Eddie O'Hare New York, NY KO 6
39. Jan 13 Battling Levinsky New York, NY W 12
40. Feb 11 Jack Clifford Brooklyn, NY TK 6
41. Feb 14 Whitey Wenzel Philadelphia, Pa TK 4
42. Apr 10 Jack Burke Pittsburgh, Pa TK 9
43. May 23 Harry Greb New York, NY L 15
44. Jul 6 Fay Keiser Rockaway Beach, NY W 12
45. Aug 4 Ray Thompson Long Branch, NJ KO 3
46. Oct 27 Chuck Wiggins Boston, Ma W 10
47. Nov 3 Jack Hanlon Brooklyn, NY KO 1
48. Nov 29 Charley Weinert New York, NY KO 4
49. Feb 3 Chucks Wiggins New York, NY W 12
50. Feb 23 Harry Greb New York, NY W 15
51. May 7 Jack Clifford Detroit, Mi TK 8
52. Jul 31 Dan O'Dowd Long Island City, NY W 12
53. Dec 10 Harry Greb New York, NY W 15
54. Jan 24 Ray Thompson West Palm Beach, Fl KO 2
55. Feb 15 Martin Burke New Orleans, La W 15
56. Jun 26 Erminio Spalla Bronx, NY TK 7
57. Jul 24 Georges Carpentier New York, NY TK 15
58. Aug 18 Joe Lohman Columbus, Oh TK 8
59. Sep 27 Ray Neuman Ebensburg, Pa W 10
60. Oct 27 Harry Foley Memphis, Tn KO 1
61. Nov 10 Buddy McHale Memphis, Tn KO 2
62. Dec 8 Jeff Smith New Orleans, La W 15
63. Jun 5 Tommy Gibbons New York, NY KO 12
64. Jul 3 "Italian" Jack Herman Kansas City, Mo KO 2
65. Sep 25 Bartley Madden Minneapolis, Mn KO 3
66. Dec 29 Dan O'Dowd St. Petersburg, Fl KO 2
67. Sep 23 Jack Dempsey Philadelphia, Pa W 10
68. Sep 22 Jack Dempsey Chicago, Il W 10
69. Jul 26 Tom Heeney Bronx, NY TK 12

​


Because there is a source for every single name and date and result I just listed. 67-1-1, GTFO of here with that BR BS

[Dr Z]

This

What survives really for most fans is Tunney retired his title. That's probably why folks love to rate him an ATG HW. With all of what 3 HW fights?


Outside of that, I'm honestly shocked at Bronson's acceptance of Boxrec on Tunney. 65-1-1. says who exactly? Why exactly?



Gene Tunney's record so says Das Marche:

1. Jul 2 Bobby Dawson New York, NY TK 8
2. Aug 7 Battling Genrimo New York, NY KO 3
3. Aug 28 George Lahey New York, NY KO 2
4. Dec 8 Young Guarini New York, NY TK 8
5. Dec 15 Young Sharkey New York, NY KO 6
6. Dec 29 Sailor Wolfe New York, NY KO 2
7. Dec 21 "Young" Joe Borrell New York, NY KO 2
8. Jan 15 Hughey Weir New York, NY KO 2
9. Jul 8 Young Guarini Jersey City, NJ KO 1
10. Hank Wuerhl Romarantin, Fr KO 3
11. Johnny Newton Romarantin, Fr KO 6
12. Dec 5 Victor "K.O." Marchand Paris, Fr KO 2
13. Dec Howard Morrow Romarantin, Fr KO 6
14. Dec Tommy Gavigan Romarantin, Fr D 12
15. Jan 31 "Fighting" Bob Martin Paris, Fr W 4
16. Mar 24 Indian Lewis Tours, Fr KO 1
17. Mar 31 Dare Davis Tours, Fr KO 3
18. Apr 14 K.O. Sullivan Paris, Fr W 10
19. Apr 26 Ted Jamieson Paris, Fr W 10
20. Dec 29 Bob Pearce Newark, NJ TK 2
21. Jan 1 Whitey Allen Bayonne, NJ KO 2
22. Jan 20 Bud Nelson Bayonne, NJ KO 1
23. Jan 26 Jim Monahan Jersey City, NJ TK 1
24. Feb 2 Al Roberts Newark, NJ KO 8
25. Mar 4 Ed Kinley Jersey City, NJ KO 5
26. Apr 5 K.O. Sullivan Newark, NJ KO 1
27. Apr 9 Jack Clifford Binghamton, NY KO 3
28. Jun 7 Jeff Madden Jersey City, NJ TK 2
29. Jun 28 Ole Anderson Jersey City, NJ TK 3
30. Oct 22 "Sergeant" Ray Smith Camden, NJ TK 2
31. Jun 28 Johnny "Young" Ambrose New York, NY KO 1
32. Jul 2 Horace "Soldier" Jones Jersey City, NJ TK 7
33. Aug 4 Martin Burke New York, NY W 10
34. Aug 18 Eddie Josephs Staten Island, NY W 12
35. Sep 26 Herbert Crossley Brooklyn, NY W 7
36. Oct 14 Jack Burke New York, NY TK 3
37. Oct 25 Magnus "Wolf" Larsen New York, NY TK 7
38. Dec 22 Eddie O'Hare New York, NY KO 6
39. Jan 13 Battling Levinsky New York, NY W 12
40. Feb 11 Jack Clifford Brooklyn, NY TK 6
41. Feb 14 Whitey Wenzel Philadelphia, Pa TK 4
42. Apr 10 Jack Burke Pittsburgh, Pa TK 9
43. May 23 Harry Greb New York, NY L 15
44. Jul 6 Fay Keiser Rockaway Beach, NY W 12
45. Aug 4 Ray Thompson Long Branch, NJ KO 3
46. Oct 27 Chuck Wiggins Boston, Ma W 10
47. Nov 3 Jack Hanlon Brooklyn, NY KO 1
48. Nov 29 Charley Weinert New York, NY KO 4
49. Feb 3 Chucks Wiggins New York, NY W 12
50. Feb 23 Harry Greb New York, NY W 15
51. May 7 Jack Clifford Detroit, Mi TK 8
52. Jul 31 Dan O'Dowd Long Island City, NY W 12
53. Dec 10 Harry Greb New York, NY W 15
54. Jan 24 Ray Thompson West Palm Beach, Fl KO 2
55. Feb 15 Martin Burke New Orleans, La W 15
56. Jun 26 Erminio Spalla Bronx, NY TK 7
57. Jul 24 Georges Carpentier New York, NY TK 15
58. Aug 18 Joe Lohman Columbus, Oh TK 8
59. Sep 27 Ray Neuman Ebensburg, Pa W 10
60. Oct 27 Harry Foley Memphis, Tn KO 1
61. Nov 10 Buddy McHale Memphis, Tn KO 2
62. Dec 8 Jeff Smith New Orleans, La W 15
63. Jun 5 Tommy Gibbons New York, NY KO 12
64. Jul 3 "Italian" Jack Herman Kansas City, Mo KO 2
65. Sep 25 Bartley Madden Minneapolis, Mn KO 3
66. Dec 29 Dan O'Dowd St. Petersburg, Fl KO 2
67. Sep 23 Jack Dempsey Philadelphia, Pa W 10
68. Sep 22 Jack Dempsey Chicago, Il W 10
69. Jul 26 Tom Heeney Bronx, NY TK 12

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Because there is a source for every single name and date and result I just listed. 67-1-1, GTFO of here with that BR BS

The lines between heavyweight and light heavyweight were blurred in those days. As far as quality of opponents beaten, Tunnney holds something like 10 wins vs. Hall of fame opponents.

I perfer to use Wikipedia first as several historains edit it.