Let's say Mike Tyson does not go to prison. How great would his legacy be?

[Dr Z]

Let's say Mike Tyson does not go to prison. He lost three prime year in prison.

His boxing legacy was diminished. But suppose he has these fights instead of going to prison:

A rematch with Douglas

A big fight with Holyfield

And a match up with Foreman.

Might Mike go 3-0 here? Or at least 2-1. How much greater in an all time sense would he be??

[Tatabanya]

Tyson was already sliding in 1989, from the first Frank Bruno fight on. There's no certainty on any hypothesis, except perhaps that the 1988 version of Tyson would have a serious chance of going 3-0 here.

But the 1990 version was a little lesser, if you ask me, although still impressive on certain nights (the Alex Stewart fight comes to mind). He was still excellent, but less quick and - most definitely - less disciplined in training.

So the result of these three fights around 1990 or so would depend on how seriously Tyson would take his career at that point. A well-trained, focused Iron Mike against a young Holyfield is the one I'd have loved to see more.

[Anomalocaris]

Holyfield would still have won and Foreman was all wrong for Tyson even in 1990 but he would beat Buster.

[Mr Mitts]

If the same fat Douglas that faced Holyfield, in I think his very first and only defense showed up, then I know Tyson would KO him before he got a chance to mangle him. It was a disgrace seeing a heavyweight champion show up in that shape ready to lose. Apparently he did not want to win but merely look the fool the and born loser who had to sabotage his own success. Any decent heavyweight could have slapped him around that night. Tokyo Douglas was a one hit wonder.

Out of the three, Holyfield is the guy who always showed up in shape, could withstand a beating if it went that far, and he possessed otherworldly stamina and pluck. He never seemed to want to quit any fight or had some idea of not winning it. If boxers followed the example of Holyfield it would be a much better sport.

[Anomalocaris]

I actually think the Foreman/Holy fight was a bit of a classic.

When he blasted Evander ten feet across the ring at one point I could not believe he stayed upright.

Ditto when Holy landed about 15 maximum leverage punches on George.

I remember Ian Darke saying -

'Is this man made of metal or something?'

[BKM-]

The premise of the question relies on whether Tyson still ducks almost the entire 90s HW roster like he did in real life.

Since you made the thread I'll go by your rules since you mentioned 3 matchups. Douglas, I will not alter history for him and pretend he would be in shape for a rematch so Tyson wins that one.

On to prime Holyfield. A better fight than their 96 classic with Holyfield still dominating. Tyson fans think he matches up better against early 90s Evander because the man got into fire fights he didn't need to. But they fail to look at the other fights where he adapted and was disciplined like against Foreman and Bowe #2. With a fight of this magnitude, Evander will simply employ the same grappling, smothering, bullying tactic he did in 96-97. Which this Tyson who had more endurance, would still fall prey to.

George Foreman? Any version of Foreman knocks out any version of Tyson. You can take the oldest, fattest retirement fight Foreman and put him up against the mythical 86-88 prime fleet footed Catskills Tyson with Kevin Rooney rubbing his traps in his corner and kissing his lips, and Foreman still ruins him. A simple matter of styles make fights, attributes eat up another's attributes. The limited Tyson only fights one way which falls right into every single trap the genetic monster Foreman will set. Put it this way, everything Tyson does makes it EASY for Foreman to win. This fight would never go more than 2 rounds. And it may only go past round 1 because of Mike's 20inch neck.

[BKM-]

I actually think the Foreman/Holy fight was a bit of a classic.

When he blasted Evander ten feet across the ring at one point I could not believe he stayed upright.

Ditto when Holy landed about 15 maximum leverage punches on George.

I remember Ian Darke saying -

'Is this man made of metal or something?'

Well, it's kind of proof that gaining solid mass will make a HW more durable. Age does not strengthen your chin like it seemed with Foreman in fact it does the opposite. He was 30-50 pounds bigger in his second career and did not get moved as much when he got hit. Young Foreman had the great chin but not the balance of the extra mass which also gave him some more padding. He tasted the canvas what, 5 times in his first career?

[Nash out]

He would have lost a lot more fights with those extra years. Nash out - His Most Majestic Majesty

[Biledriver]

Holyfield would still have won and Foreman was all wrong for Tyson even in 1990 but he would beat Buster.

While Foreman was a stylistic nightmare for Tyson, the old Foreman was so slow I'm not comfortable picking him. I'll call that a tossup. Any version of Tyson loses to Holyfield 8/10 times. Tyson destroys Douglas as I'm certain Buster would never be able to replicate his Tokyo performance.

[Anomalocaris]

The premise of the question relies on whether Tyson still ducks almost the entire 90s HW roster like he did in real life.

Since you made the thread I'll go by your rules since you mentioned 3 matchups. Douglas, I will not alter history for him and pretend he would be in shape for a rematch so Tyson wins that one.

On to prime Holyfield. A better fight than their 96 classic with Holyfield still dominating. Tyson fans think he matches up better against early 90s Evander because the man got into fire fights he didn't need to. But they fail to look at the other fights where he adapted and was disciplined like against Foreman and Bowe #2. With a fight of this magnitude, Evander will simply employ the same grappling, smothering, bullying tactic he did in 96-97. Which this Tyson who had more endurance, would still fall prey to.

George Foreman? Any version of Foreman knocks out any version of Tyson. You can take the oldest, fattest retirement fight Foreman and put him up against the mythical 86-88 prime fleet footed Catskills Tyson with Kevin Rooney rubbing his traps in his corner and kissing his lips, and Foreman still ruins him. A simple matter of styles make fights, attributes eat up another's attributes. The limited Tyson only fights one way which falls right into every single trap the genetic monster Foreman will set. Put it this way, everything Tyson does makes it EASY for Foreman to win. This fight would never go more than 2 rounds. And it may only go past round 1 because of Mike's 20inch neck.

A great post.

You don't walk into George and survive and Tyson only fought one way and could not adapt like Holy.