The Ol' Mongoose vs The Executioner

[LondonRingRules]

Officially Archie Moore was a few days short of his 42nd birthday when he KOed young Canadian LH Yvon Durelle in one of the most action packed title slugfests of all time.

Unofficially it was thought, like Liston, that Arch was several years older, closer to 50 than 40.

Hopkins is 43 and scrapping for respect against another older fighter in Calzaghe. Hoppy had to leave his middleweight home after being given the boot by new king, Taylor. Yet Hop jumped two divisions and beat the reigning "lineal" LH in a rousing bout.

Hoppy is 48-4-1, 34 KOs and Arch was an astounding 173-21-10, 124 KOs for the first Durelle fight. The only bouts Arch had lost the previous 7 yrs were KOs by Rocky and hard charging Patterson for the heavy title.

Hoppy wants to be a legend, but can he compete with the ol' Mongoose?

Let's hear the hue and the cry.......

[TheGreatA]

Archie looked very good in his rematch against Yvon Durelle, much better than he looked in the first fight. Moore fought like a man half his age, this is a must watch boxing clinic.


The first one was a very good fight, this is the first round.
Moore was knocked down hard three times in the first round but somehow survived and came back to KO Durelle in the 11th round. Very impressive at his age, or any age.

Hopkins credits Moore and other old school legends like Jersey Joe Walcott for the style he uses.

The Joe Calzaghe fight should tell a lot about how well Hopkins can fight at his age. I don't think he has any offensive capabilites left anymore aside from throwing the occasional counter right.

[Brunswick Assassin]

Hopkins is a consumate professional no doubts about it! However, I'd have to go with the Ol' Mongoose. Moore had more knock outs than anyone in Boxing History, he was also very smart and would figure out the opponents style, and explot their weakness, then KO them brutally. He never ducked anyone and fought against the best, had a good chin, and came back from being knocked down and won a lot of fights.

[Terry A]

I would take Archie over any middleweight who ever fought, except for Ray Robinson. I need to seriously think about that match up before I take a side. But I'm comfortable picking Archie over B-Hop. Outside of Tarver, Bernard has never fought the lightheavys, crusierweights and heavyweights. Archie fought so many of his fights against guys 20-30 lbs heavier than he was.

I also want to say something else. The three posts above mine in this thread were a pleasure to read. How nice it is to come to a site where the people who post actually know what they speak of and are not only students of our sports history, but lovers of it as well. You guys make this place all the better by your contributions. I read these posts and almost didn't respond because I had nothing different to add to what you guys already said. That's how close we think, at least on this particular match up.

[LondonRingRules]

I also want to say something else. The three posts above mine in this thread were a pleasure to read. How nice it is to come to a site where the people who post actually know what they speak of and are not only students of our sports history, but lovers of it as well. You guys make this place all the better by your contributions. I read these posts and almost didn't respond because I had nothing different to add to what you guys already said. That's how close we think, at least on this particular match up.

** Amen to that. Guess we got an echo going.

My take of a very good HOF fighter in twilight years vs a very great HOF fighter in his twilight years:

Arch lost several early on, came out the short end of the series against welter Burley and middleweight Charles, but he learned his lessons well in these fights. When he finally had to move up to LH, he had developed a series of traps and styles for different styles and used his power as his seal of approval. He outpoints a difficult Maxim for the title and defends when possible, fighting always, often well above the LH weight against heavies.

He was very tight at the weight, having to chew the nutrients out of his steaks before spitting it out during training, a testament to his discipline as that is not a natural act of a poor boy.

Always accessible to the press, he entertained with a perplexing, complicated theories of life and boxing, and from all accounts, a genuine, cultivated gentleman out of the ring, belying his poor, scrappy roots.

Very good Hoppy a bit taller and rangier w/no problems making weight. He does not put on the pressure from the danger Arch brought, and as such cannot set as many traps that could be as effective.

Hoppy does seem to still have his legs under him, so Arch will carefully waltz him around, letting him get his timing down so he commits more before lowering the boom. Don't think he can KO Hoppy, but hurts him enough that Hoppy has to go into his spoiler tactics, leaving room for Arch to easily outwork and outshine him.

I would give Hoppy an advantage in natural talent as he was very formidable in their primes, more so than Arch. However, Arch was like a fine wine during the aging process where the sum becomes a storied, one off year because of special conditions, much better than the initial ingrediants might suggest. In these twilight years, it's Arch hands down.

That Durelle fight one of the best ever IMO and should be part of American, indeed, world history classes.

[Brockton Lip]

Interesting fight. There probably won't be a toe to toe war since I don't see either fighter wanting to engage that way and they would probably turn the fight into a chess match. Both are durable and great fighters so it would most likely go the distance although I can see Moore stopping Hopkins at some point. I'd have to pick Moore by Unanimous Decision over Hopkins. He'd have Hopkins respect with his power and would outclass or outwork him in route to a decision win.

[butterfly1964]

I'll take Moore by late stoppage.

[Brunswick Assassin]

The Old Mongoose would bide his time making every shot count. His cross arm defence was very hard to penetrate also. Bernard was exceptional at middleweight to say the least, making 16 successful defences of his middleweight crown.

B-Hop also stopped the 40-0 Trinidad in 2001 making the first Undisputed Middleweight since Marvelous Marvin Hagler. He had power in both hands and was hard to tag. As Terry said he's only fought once at Light Heavy against Tarver and never tested himself at Cruiser or Heavy. Wish he fought Toney at Cruiser in 2003!

Moore was the best Light Heavy for a decade before winning Light Heavy Title and is the most dominant Light Heavy of all time. Moore by stoppage in mid to late rounds.

Even compare their records with Moore's:

Total Fights 221 (1 No Decision)
Won 194
Lost 26
Draw 8
Knockouts 145

Bernard Hopkins' record:

Total fights 54
Wins 48
Wins by KO 32
Losses 4
Draws 1
No contests 1

Moore's record compared to Hopkins and any modern day fighter is phenomenal! Moore's had 5 times as many fights B-Hop's had and 5 times as many KOs B-Hop's had! It's very hard to go against Moore by comparing their records.

[BudWX]

Archie excutes Hop in 4-5 rds

[wmute]

Officially Archie Moore was a few days short of his 42nd birthday when he KOed young Canadian LH Yvon Durelle in one of the most action packed title slugfests of all time.

Unofficially it was thought, like Liston, that Arch was several years older, closer to 50 than 40.

Hopkins is 43 and scrapping for respect against another older fighter in Calzaghe. Hoppy had to leave his middleweight home after being given the boot by new king, Taylor. Yet Hop jumped two divisions and beat the reigning "lineal" LH in a rousing bout.

Hoppy is 48-4-1, 34 KOs and Arch was an astounding 173-21-10, 124 KOs for the first Durelle fight. The only bouts Arch had lost the previous 7 yrs were KOs by Rocky and hard charging Patterson for the heavy title.

Hoppy wants to be a legend, but can he compete with the ol' Mongoose?

Let's hear the hue and the cry.......

Hopkins did not fight the lineal HW champ, he fought a ring champ. the lineal champ would be Erdei (sad but true).

Hopkins main asset, are his toughness, his smarts and his skills... The only compartment in which he bests Moore might be whiskers. Other than that I take Archie Moore by a not-so-close decision.