jack johnson vs rocky marciano

[Dr. Z]

When you do not source which post you are responding to it makes it hard to know what you are responding too. If you are responding to my post, you see things black and white. My comment has to do with what Marciano was able to accomplish considering what he came to the table with.

There is also more to "knowing what you are talking about" than being a parrot for those so called experts. Some of us have bigger minds, and don't assume that because of lists, a highly subjective endevour, certain fighters cannot be revisited. There was a time in history when to question Aristotle scientifically was dangerous because of people who could not tolerate dissent...

Finally, you are ignorant of the context quoted. Marchgiana does research, he did some very detailed work on Greek fighters who were champions.

You seem a bit desperate to be "right" regarding a conclusion that cannot be verified and want to browbeat others into some type of intellectual submission based on the experts... Ain't gonna work here bub. I happen to be a big Johnson fan, for most of the same reasons you are. I also happen to recognize that there are singular aspects to Marciano's game that make this, potentially a relatively hard fight to analyze.

Agreed. Johnson had the ability to nullify what Stanley Ketchel, and very old in-active and shot James Jeffries bright to the table for example. This doesn't mean he's do as well vs other real heavyweights or fighters in their prime.

He was handle to 20 year old likely 140ish pound Langford once. Then he ducked him as champion, backing out of signed contract and no offer to meet him ever stuck This doesn't mean he would be able to handle a much bigger prime Langford either.

To catch HOUDINI563 attention, it's like saying Jess Willard who Ko'd Jack Johnson, would do the same to Joe Louis and Sonny Liston because he's higher on their list, which in a modern context is often junk.

[HOUDINI563]

Jess Willard was never considered a great fighter. It was acknowledged in his day that he only had a rudimentary understanding of boxing science. No expert to my knowledge ever rated Willard higher nor felt he would beat Louis or Liston. There is no technical analysis of styles or skills that would lead one to the conclusion that Willard would beat or avoid a ko loss vs either fighter.

Langford was bigger in his prime but so was Johnson. Johnson signed to fight Langford three times. Twice the promoters backed out as funds could not be raised to make the bout occur. The final time Johnson left the US for Europe to avoid jail time and the bout was dropped. You don’t sign to fight an opponent three times if you are afraid you will lose to them

[Dr. Z]

Jess Willard was never considered a great fighter. It was acknowledged in his day that he only had a rudimentary understanding of boxing science. No expert to my knowledge ever rated Willard higher nor felt he would beat Louis or Liston. There is no technical analysis of styles or skills that would lead one to the conclusion that Willard would beat or avoid a ko loss vs either fighter.

Langford was bigger in his prime but so was Johnson. Johnson signed to fight Langford three times. Twice the promoters backed out as funds could not be raised to make the bout occur. The final time Johnson left the US for Europe to avoid jail time and the bout was dropped. You don’t sign to fight an opponent three times if you are afraid you will lose to them

Dr Z, aka Mendoza, has a many year history lying about Johnson and his history because “he hit his wife”

So says a guy everyone laughs at. At least two other besides myself in this very thread. Please leave family out of it, and no Johnson had no interaction with my family.

We have already been over Johnson's signed contract to fight Langford in the UK in 1909. Johnson pulled out of it.

Of course Willard would not be Louis or Liston, I was using your analysts of list and such to show you how bogus they can be. I guessed you missed it.

Please tell me Johnson three best wins.

[HOUDINI563]

Please show your data as to a contract other than the three that are known that provides evidence.

You have a sick obsession against a fighter who fought over 100 years ago. So sick you constantly make crap up to degrade him. Your MO is well known.

Your lies regarding Johnson’s bout with Flynn is glaring evidence.

[Dr. Z]

Please show your data as to a contract other than the three that are known that provides evidence.

You have a sick obsession against a fighter who fought over 100 years ago. So sick you constantly make crap up to degrade him. Your MO is well known.

Your lies regarding Johnson’s bout with Flynn is glaring evidence.

I asked you a question, and you duck it. Once again, in your opinion what are Johnson three best wins?

You called me out over junk. Johnson has nothing to do with my family. Knock it off or else.

I quoted the at ringside for the Johnson vs Flynn fight. They were there, you dream about it. How is this a lie? Please explain.

Quoting people at the fight, many of who were writers or authorities on boxing adds to the story. Based on what I've seen your the blatant liar with a need to feel right, and you're often wrong. That's a tough place to be in, but it is your MO. Other poster see it instantly here.

[QueensburyRules]

Jess Willard was never considered a great fighter. It was acknowledged in his day that he only had a rudimentary understanding of boxing science. No expert to my knowledge ever rated Willard higher nor felt he would beat Louis or Liston. There is no technical analysis of styles or skills that would lead one to the conclusion that Willard would beat or avoid a ko loss vs either fighter.

Langford was bigger in his prime but so was Johnson. Johnson signed to fight Langford three times. Twice the promoters backed out as funds could not be raised to make the bout occur. The final time Johnson left the US for Europe to avoid jail time and the bout was dropped. You don’t sign to fight an opponent three times if you are afraid you will lose to them

- -Last edited by Jaded now is it?

Sad that...

[travestyny]

The reply was not Charles not being ranked ranked. Clearly he is. Not who's 8th.

I didn't see anyone say Charles wasn't ranked. I saw a poster say he wasn't ranked at the level of Johnson.

In a conversation about Jack Johnson vs. Ezzard Charles, it's strange that you would offer backup support from a ranking that has Charles as #27 and Jack Johnson at #8

[travestyny]

- -Last edited by Jaded now is it?

Sad that...

Seems a mod edited the post because Dr. Z believes that Houdini is saying JJohnson hit Z's wife instead of his own

[BattlingNelson]

Keep baseless assumptions about family unrelated to this thread topic out or I'll close or delete this thread thank you.

[Dr. Z]

I didn't see anyone say Charles wasn't ranked. I saw a poster say he wasn't ranked at the level of Johnson.

In a conversation about Jack Johnson vs. Ezzard Charles, it's strange that you would offer backup support from a ranking that has Charles as #27 and Jack Johnson at #8

According the the IBRO a group of living historians, Charles rates #13 all time pound for pound, Johnson #19th. So here ya go, he's rated 6 spots ahead of Johnson.




Charles also rates ahead of Johnson by Ring Magazine. In 2002, Charles was ranked #13 on The Ring magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years.

Your retort?

As you said lol.

On film, Charles is far more skilled, it's not hard to see.

Thank to the mod for cleaning up a baseless post about a family member.