Comments Thread For: Crawford, Inoue Remain a Debate Apart: P4P Update

[messi807]

February will probably be the next potential possible time the #1 could change. If Usyk convincingly wins against Fury to go undisputed in HW it will put him up to top above Bud and Inoue and I think he will stay there until the end of the year. Bud defeating Spence again in a rematch in February won't be enough to keep the top.

If Usyk doesn't win but Bud only fights Spence again, he will lose the top when Inoue defeats Nery/MJ next year.

Canelo won't be in the conversation unless he fights Benavidez as a start. Haney won't be in the conversion until he atleast unifies against Teo or crush Matias as well.

Why would Nery/MJ boost Inoue? MJ lost to Tapales & Nery got KO’d by Figueroa.

Why would Uysk go #1? He escaped with a win against Dubois and only has Joshua on his resum?since 2018 and didn’t look good against Chisora.

You can’t just jump over everyone because you become the latest to become 2x undisputed, doesn’t work like that. You have to measure up every fight, how you’ve looked etc. Bud has stopped 11 fighters in a row since 2017.

[TheOneAboveAll]

I approve this list.

[Boro]

Why would Nery/MJ boost Inoue? MJ lost to Tapales & Nery got KO’d by Figueroa.

Why would Uysk go #1? He escaped with a win against Dubois and only has Joshua on his resum?since 2018 and didn’t look good against Chisora.

You can’t just jump over everyone because you become the latest to become 2x undisputed, doesn’t work like that. You have to measure up every fight, how you’ve looked etc. Bud has stopped 11 fighters in a row since 2017.

Inoue has a history of moving up and challenging the #1 guy in the division, crawford moved up and took 5 almost 6 years to get a unification fight.

Usyk didn't escape anything, a ref made a call and he ran with it, you could argue he milked it but that's by the by.

And the reason he would jump everyone is heavyweight is historically seen as THE DIVISION.

He arguably ran a tougher gauntlet than Holyfield at Cruiserweight and will of certainly beat a better guy to become undisputed, so historically there is a presendencent set by a great already.

And Usyk is arguably the greatest cruiserweight of all time, it's either him or Holyfield and that in and of itself says a lot...

[Airtioteclint]

Inoue has always been challenging the best as he moved up. And stopping them in an entertaining way. No running, no clinching.

Bud destruction of Spence was impressive as hell but prior to that everybody was criticizing his resume. And what has he done since? That whole "he can do what he wants now" is complete bs. That should only apply to a fighter who's put in so much work they can choose easier targets once out of their prime. Crawford still young and in his prime so cut that bs out already. For the record I think he beats ennis but anybody who refuses to acknowledge the duck is lying to themselves.

[Elheath]

Why would Nery/MJ boost Inoue? MJ lost to Tapales & Nery got KO’d by Figueroa.

Why would Uysk go #1? He escaped with a win against Dubois and only has Joshua on his resum?since 2018 and didn’t look good against Chisora.

You can’t just jump over everyone because you become the latest to become 2x undisputed, doesn’t work like that. You have to measure up every fight, how you’ve looked etc. Bud has stopped 11 fighters in a row since 2017.

Because Bud's Spence win last year was so good that it was enough to keep him at the top for the rest of 2023, but isn't good enough to permanently keep him at top if he stays stagnant while the others in the top 3 make significant advancements or addition to their resume.

Usyk, if he defeats Fury will become the first heavyweight undisputed champion in the four belt era. I personally have very little interest in the HW nowadays, but as mentioned above the HW is still THE division for boxing. Not to mention, this is after already being the first undisputed cruiserweight champion and also arguably the best cruiserweight in history of boxing.

For Crawford, defeating Spence again in an immediate rematch (I know it is Spence that activated the rematch clause but still the point is that Bud isn't doing anything more to help his claim if he doesn't fight Tszyu or Boots this year) doesn't add extra points, because he already got the credit due for defeating him in a convincing way. In a perfect world, there won't be a rematch and instead in that time frame Bud would fight either Boots at 147 or gone up to Tszyu at 154. I think if they fight Bud would win anyway, but actually fighting to put it on the record still counts.

Think of it this way, would people rather see Inoue fight Fulton again in May for a rematch that adds nothing, or him to clear out the next two best guys left in the division in Nery/MJ? Fighting Fulton again when he hasn't shown anything yet since his loss is equivalent to the immediate Spence rematch. Fighting Nery/MJ is the equivalent of Bud fighting Boots, which is fighting the next best guys in the division you are in (even if you are already undisputed and is likely to win), until you are satisfied or decide to go up.

[crimsonfalcon07]

I'm not convinced that Usyk beating Fury really will do that much, unless he dominates and/or stops him, thanks to Fury looking like garbage against Ngannou. If Ngannou beats AJ, then things look different. As is, I'm surely not the only one who thinks that Fury is overrated, just as I wasn't the only one who thought that Spence was overrated, or that Demetrius Andrade was overrated.

MJ and Nery are clearly the best guys in the division for Inoue, and there's past history that makes it interesting. Cleaning out a division shows dominance. I don't like crapping on Bud to raise up Inoue, but think about how many of your favorite fighters really cleaned out two divisions in a row, starting with the best guys. Not just winning all the belts, but also beating everyone relevant so there's no argument to be made that you are ducking. I'd be curious to hear from the historians here if who has completely cleaned out two divisions in a row without a single tuneup.

Also gonna mention that 126 now has a lot of business to sort out. Someone's got to separate themselves as the best guy in the division in order to provide a target for Inoue. And Inoue has to grow into 122 fully. If he moved up now, he'd still be effectively a bantamweight fighting up two divisions.

I wish Bud had been able to immediately go up and beat Charlo for 3 belts. He had plenty of time to do so if he hadn't been tied down by rematch, and I think he would have. If he had beaten Charlo this year before Charlo dropped belts, he'd be a lock for #1. Now 154 is a lot more disputed, and wins a lot less meaningful.

[Elheath]

I'm not convinced that Usyk beating Fury really will do that much, unless he dominates and/or stops him, thanks to Fury looking like garbage against Ngannou. If Ngannou beats AJ, then things look different. As is, I'm surely not the only one who thinks that Fury is overrated, just as I wasn't the only one who thought that Spence was overrated, or that Demetrius Andrade was overrated.

MJ and Nery are clearly the best guys in the division for Inoue, and there's past history that makes it interesting. Cleaning out a division shows dominance. I don't like crapping on Bud to raise up Inoue, but think about how many of your favorite fighters really cleaned out two divisions in a row, starting with the best guys. Not just winning all the belts, but also beating everyone relevant so there's no argument to be made that you are ducking. I'd be curious to hear from the historians here if who has completely cleaned out two divisions in a row without a single tuneup.

I wish Bud had been able to immediately go up and beat Charlo for 3 belts. He had plenty of time to do so if he hadn't been tied down by rematch, and I think he would have. If he had beaten Charlo this year before Charlo dropped belts, he'd be a lock for #1. Now 154 is a lot more disputed, and wins a lot less meaningful.

Fury probably is overrated but it doesn't change the fact that he is still the best guy left in HW that Usyk hasn't defeated, and more importantly has the last belt on him.

Bud fighting Charlo next is the pipe dream fantasy that could've been the ticket for him to boost his status to become one of the historical boxing figure as the first boxer ever to go undisputed in three divisions in the 4 belt era. If he got Jermell to get multiple belts he may have had just enough matches left in his career to clear out 154 before retirement.

[ShoulderRoll]

Estrada last fought in December of 2022 against Chocolatito and Beterbiev last fought in January of 2023 against Yarde.

Is it that much of a difference? Why drop Gallo off the top 10 altogether and not Beterbiev?

[crimsonfalcon07]

Estrada last fought in December of 2022 against Chocolatito and Beterbiev last fought in January of 2023 against Yarde.

Is it that much of a difference? Why drop Gallo off the top 10 altogether and not Beterbiev?

I think I would have kept Estrada personally, but it may come down to Estrada being inactive due to turning down fights, while Beterbiev was inactive that long due to documented medical issues, and with a scheduled mandatory defense on the calendar.

[ShoulderRoll]

I think I would have kept Estrada personally, but it may come down to Estrada being inactive due to turning down fights, while Beterbiev was inactive that long due to documented medical issues, and with a scheduled mandatory defense on the calendar.

Estrada only turned down a fight where he was lowballed.