HARRY GREB vs LES DARCY - The TRILOGY THAT Never Was _ Who WINS ?

[McGoorty]

,.... ,., GREB vs DARCY - 3 fights over 20 rounds - Circa. 1921 The fights we missed Harry Greb is 27 and Les Darcy Would have been nearly 26 y.o.age,. ,...... WHO WINS ? What Margin ???,.....you Pick,

[JAB5239]

,.... ,., GREB vs DARCY - 3 fights over 20 rounds - Circa. 1921 The fights we missed Harry Greb is 27 and Les Darcy Would have been nearly 26 y.o.age,. ,...... WHO WINS ? What Margin ???,.....you Pick,

Though there is no fight footage of him I would favor Greb. He was able to beat master boxers Loughran and Tunney who were both bigger and more experienced against better fighters. To difficult to predict how the fight may have played out though.

[McGoorty]

Though there is no fight footage of him I would favor Greb. He was able to beat master boxers Loughran and Tunney who were both bigger and more experienced against better fighters. To difficult to predict how the fight may have played out though.

I think the fight would be great and certainly a trilogy would be warranted especially as these guys usually fought a series against everybody those days. I have been researching both men as they were the standout middleweights among the rest in that decade. I was surprised a bit going into Grebs career, especially at his K.O. percentage was just 16.05 with 48 k.o's and was kayoed twice (meaningless, he wasn't a well man) but considering his 299 bouts is still good, I alway's thought he was a knockout artist. Darcy was a big puncher and has an edge there but we all know how tough Harry was and Darcy was seemingly invulnerable, so we are looking at a decision with hardly much chance of either man getting a K.O.. We don't know much about Greb's style but we do know he was a rock, it's the Immovable object versus the Immovable object,..sensational. The BIG unknown is how much better would a Mature Prime Darcy be,..... he'd be a LOT better for sure, but how much better ? I appreciate you being first on the thread, thanks.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, My favorite All time 15 boxers (that I've seen on film/TV at least). Not in numerical order --- TSZYU - DARCY - CARRUTHERS - BASILIO-ZALE - PEP - FENECH - PACQUIAO - MARCIANO - ROBINSON - GANS - LANGFORD - MOORE - IKE WILLIAMS - LIONEL ROSE....

[JAB5239]

I think the fight would be great and certainly a trilogy would be warranted especially as these guys usually fought a series against everybody those days. I have been researching both men as they were the standout middleweights among the rest in that decade. I was surprised a bit going into Grebs career, especially at his K.O. percentage was just 16.05 with 48 k.o's and was kayoed twice (meaningless, he wasn't a well man) but considering his 299 bouts is still good, I alway's thought he was a knockout artist. Darcy was a big puncher and has an edge there but we all know how tough Harry was and Darcy was seemingly invulnerable, so we are looking at a decision with hardly much chance of either man getting a K.O.. We don't know much about Greb's style but we do know he was a rock, it's the Immovable object versus the Immovable object,..sensational. The BIG unknown is how much better would a Mature Prime Darcy be,..... he'd be a LOT better for sure, but how much better ? I appreciate you being first on the thread, thanks.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, My favorite All time 15 boxers (that I've seen on film/TV at least). Not in numerical order --- TSZYU - DARCY - CARRUTHERS - BASILIO-ZALE - PEP - FENECH - PACQUIAO - MARCIANO - ROBINSON - GANS - LANGFORD - MOORE - IKE WILLIAMS - LIONEL ROSE....

Greb was a swarmer like Armstrong and Pryor, from what I've gathered, except he threw even more punches.

Though not a big deal I'd like to clarify both of Greb's ko losses. The first was to Joe Chip while Greb had less than 10 fights and was outweighed by nearly 15lbs. He made no excuses but said he got caught and he would know better than to venture out of his weight class again. We all know he didn't stick to that declaration, lol! The second was to Kid Graves where x-rays showed the bone was completely broken in the second round.

I've done a lot of research on Greb, but I don't know a whole bunch about Darcy except the little I have read and the video's I have seen, so I will be happy with any education you can give me on him.

[McGoorty]

Good post

Greb was a swarmer like Armstrong and Pryor, from what I've gathered, except he threw even more punches.

Though not a big deal I'd like to clarify both of Greb's ko losses. The first was to Joe Chip while Greb had less than 10 fights and was outweighed by nearly 15lbs. He made no excuses but said he got caught and he would know better than to venture out of his weight class again. We all know he didn't stick to that declaration, lol! The second was to Kid Graves where x-rays showed the bone was completely broken in the second round.

I've done a lot of research on Greb, but I don't know a whole bunch about Darcy except the little I have read and the video's I have seen, so I will be happy with any education you can give me on him.

Yeah, I don't hold a Ko loss against Harry, not when he has had 299 fights. The reason I want to match Harry With Les is the stylistic area and that at least between 1910-30 they were the best, they did have some common opponents between them like Jimmy Clabby and co. Both Champs destroyed virtually everybody around even though arguments have raged since 1917 on which belt was real, neither fought KLAUS (an enigma). From descriptions of many Darcy fights Les was a bit like Greb in that he was fast, relentless and that when he hit his peak he was like a swarm of bees. Darcy could punch too, he could knock them out at will but tried not to, Australian audiences back then were known to RIOT a lot when a 20 rd fight ended early ( riot whenever a bad decision, after the 2nd Fritz Holland fight, they nearly totalled Sydney Stadium ). I can recommend a very good book for you, it's just about the best boxing book I've read, LES DARCY-The Legend-Champion of champions, BY, Raymond Swanwick, I might post some paragraphs from it soon.,,,, One word on Greb, There's a lot of people discussing the Disputed 1st Kid Norfolk fight, it's just nitpicking,.....299 fights,,, It means very little to me. I myself am not sure exactly who the best MW , but I can say that HARRY GREB is without doubt the best UN-FILMED MW of all, Darcy could have been the best MW who ever lived, if he'd lived on there are many who think he could have been the P4P man, Jack Dempsey and Tunney both said that Darcy was "non-Pariel" and that Darcy was a FREAK.

[McGoorty]

Greb was a swarmer like Armstrong and Pryor, from what I've gathered, except he threw even more punches.

Though not a big deal I'd like to clarify both of Greb's ko losses. The first was to Joe Chip while Greb had less than 10 fights and was outweighed by nearly 15lbs. He made no excuses but said he got caught and he would know better than to venture out of his weight class again. We all know he didn't stick to that declaration, lol! The second was to Kid Graves where x-rays showed the bone was completely broken in the second round.

I've done a lot of research on Greb, but I don't know a whole bunch about Darcy except the little I have read and the video's I have seen, so I will be happy with any education you can give me on him.

You've seen Darcy fight, can you give me feedback on your opinions on the bloke in action. I have never seen anyone better on the inside, incredibly strong and devastating. Cheers mate.

[Marchegiano]

Yeah, I don't hold a Ko loss against Harry, not when he has had 299 fights. The reason I want to match Harry With Les is the stylistic area and that at least between 1910-30 they were the best, they did have some common opponents between them like Jimmy Clabby and co. Both Champs destroyed virtually everybody around even though arguments have raged since 1917 on which belt was real, neither fought KLAUS (an enigma). From descriptions of many Darcy fights Les was a bit like Greb in that he was fast, relentless and that when he hit his peak he was like a swarm of bees. Darcy could punch too, he could knock them out at will but tried not to, Australian audiences back then were known to RIOT a lot when a 20 rd fight ended early ( riot whenever a bad decision, after the 2nd Fritz Holland fight, they nearly totalled Sydney Stadium ). I can recommend a very good book for you, it's just about the best boxing book I've read, LES DARCY-The Legend-Champion of champions, BY, Raymond Swanwick, I might post some paragraphs from it soon.,,,, One word on Greb, There's a lot of people discussing the Disputed 1st Kid Norfolk fight, it's just nitpicking,.....299 fights,,, It means very little to me. I myself am not sure exactly who the best MW , but I can say that HARRY GREB is without doubt the best UN-FILMED MW of all, Darcy could have been the best MW who ever lived, if he'd lived on there are many who think he could have been the P4P man, Jack Dempsey and Tunney both said that Darcy was "non-Pariel" and that Darcy was a FREAK.

IMO Greb wipes the floor with Darcy, but really my motive for posting deals with "unfilmed"

....LPRR easily holds the best UN-FILMED MW's. Nonpareil IMO is the p4p best of all time. No one beats a prime John "Jack 'Nonpareil' Dempsey" Kelly. Gypsy Jem Mace is another I don't see getting the mad respect he deserves. Greb's got an amazing record....Robinson amazing, but he's a gloved fighter. Look at LPRR records of some names you know like Sullivan or maybe Fitz. They're decent records for boxing, and god damn amazing for LPRR. Dempsey, has a record that number wise may not stack against Greb, but if you consider how hard it is to just be 5-0 in LPRR Dempsey's record rivals Robinson and Greb in that in it's plainly obvious they were way too much for their time. Light years beyond the competition. Darcy's not even close to a nonpareil. Don't just compare records compare events. NP's been low blow'd and won. Cut four inches down his calf and went on to fight a 45 rounders and end it with a KO....I've no problem with Darcy, but the real nonpareil would have murdered him. no exaggeration or symbolism.

[McGoorty]

IMO Greb wipes the floor with Darcy, but really my motive for posting deals with "unfilmed"

....LPRR easily holds the best UN-FILMED MW's. Nonpareil IMO is the p4p best of all time. No one beats a prime John "Jack 'Nonpareil' Dempsey" Kelly. Gypsy Jem Mace is another I don't see getting the mad respect he deserves. Greb's got an amazing record....Robinson amazing, but he's a gloved fighter. Look at LPRR records of some names you know like Sullivan or maybe Fitz. They're decent records for boxing, and god damn amazing for LPRR. Dempsey, has a record that number wise may not stack against Greb, but if you consider how hard it is to just be 5-0 in LPRR Dempsey's record rivals Robinson and Greb in that in it's plainly obvious they were way too much for their time. Light years beyond the competition. Darcy's not even close to a nonpareil. Don't just compare records compare events. NP's been low blow'd and won. Cut four inches down his calf and went on to fight a 45 rounders and end it with a KO....I've no problem with Darcy, but the real nonpareil would have murdered him. no exaggeration or symbolism.

I don;t know about the wiping the floor bit, I welcome all thought out opinions though and you put a good case (but a little short), Greb is great and I hold Darcy very high and beleive him The best fighter to ever come out of Aust. but I admit my picture is scetchy on Griffo, Slavin and Jackson (all Larry Foley fighters as well as Fitzsimmons), but they were obviously great pugs. My knowledge gets stronger from 1897 on but I'd love to hear more about LPRR it really interests me. especially Non-Pareil who I know just a little, I know Fitz got his belt from him, As for the Darcy Non-Pareil statement I wasn;t saying it myself but quoting HW Dempsey and Tunney, apparently those two thought he was amazing, maybe they were influenced by Kearns I don't know, but I do know that Kearns saw Darcy as his meal ticket, luckily for Kearns that he got Dempsey. Lastly, I set the date in the early 20's so I'm trying to imagine Darcy at around 25 years of age instead of 20 y.o. version, I am impressed that you know about the first Jeff Smith fight, a subtle little low blow, I read that Darcy was wearing a tin cup and Smith certaintly got Les hard because the cup looked like a cricket ball had embedded itself and he had some sensitive parts ON THE OUTSIDE Ouch. The 2nd fight was apparently a slaughter and Smith is said to have tried the same thing again but the ref DQ;s him and Les won Jeff's Belt, now there's a rivalry there was One things for sure death was the only conqueror that young Les ever met.

[JAB5239]

You've seen Darcy fight, can you give me feedback on your opinions on the bloke in action. I have never seen anyone better on the inside, incredibly strong and devastating. Cheers mate.

I would have to go watch him again to make any kind of decent breakdown of his style. From the little I've seen though he seems to be a very strong pressure fighter who keeps coming forward. I don't think his style would have resemble Greb's who was said to dart in and out from all angles throwing punches from every direction.

[McGoorty]

I would have to go watch him again to make any kind of decent breakdown of his style. From the little I've seen though he seems to be a very strong pressure fighter who keeps coming forward. I don't think his style would have resemble Greb's who was said to dart in and out from all angles throwing punches from every direction.

They would probably look different like most opponents do but pressure and speed they share, I know that Darcy was a big puncher and a GREAT chin and would have improved out of sight, if he'd lived to equal Greb's 299 he would be on a high pedestal. The old film especially the McGoorty fight makes anybody look a bit awkward but the thing that stands out on film of Darcy is that it shows a veritable terror in the clinches hitting with great power and opponents helpless to stop the very strong Darcy and he is only NINETEEN years old, the last thing you'd expect from someone who's a teen is bone crunching power that knocks out HW's twice his size. He is also way too good on the outside, seems to get the first punch in most of the time. These victims were not nobodies, they were cream MW's except for the Dave Smith who was a HW. I wonder if you have ever heard of TOMMY UREN a WW who beat McGOORTY in 3 of 4 fights among a lot of NAMES, he must have been something.