Max Kellerman: Manny Pacquiao has a case for the best pound-for-pound fighter ever

[hugh grant]

Canelo is probably great... Thurman is definitely average

casual-fans..... have no idea about styles/levels/weight

Canelo > Thurman ..... it is amusing that you are not aware of that fact

and beating Pac at 38yo is ALSO better than any win on Manny's record

Floyd fans talk in cliches they heard something like the sound of it so repeat it over and over again.
Just because PAC has a better resume than Thurman and is a higher ATG doesn't mean it's a better win for Floyd beating a former flyweight with 70 fights under belt and coming not far off a ko to jmm. Compared to PAC beating a bigger younger prime young unbeaten lion.
PAC shouldn't be beating top 3 Ww champs at 40. There's no reason why Floyd shouldn't be beating former flyweights smaller than himself, coming off devastating no coming back from ko losses.
So floyds win over PAC is not better than PACs win over thurman. I'm sorry to break it to you. Although I expect Floyd fans to continue to flatter PAC by saying how great a win PAC is for them.

[aboutfkntime]

Floyd fans talk in cliches they heard something like the sound of it so repeat it over and over again.
Just because PAC has a better resume than Thurman and is a higher ATG doesn't mean it's a better win for Floyd beating a former flyweight with 70 fights under belt and coming not far off a ko to jmm. Compared to PAC beating a bigger younger prime young unbeaten lion.
PAC shouldn't be beating top 3 Ww champs at 40. There's no reason why Floyd shouldn't be beating former flyweights smaller than himself, coming off devastating no coming back from ko losses.
Sonfloyds win over PAC is not better than PACs win over thurman. I'm sorry to break it to you. Although I expect Floyd fans to continue to flatter PAC by saying how great a win PAC is for them.

yes it does Hugh, that is EXACTLY what it means

Thurman is largely unproven, his best win is scraping past Shawn Porter..... and Thurman has not looked like the same fighter since returning from injury/inactivity

he nearly got knocked out by a journeyman in his last fight

FACT: a number of welters could have beaten Thurman

FACT: there is nothing special about beating a guy who would also have lost to a number of other fighters

all Pac beating Thurman means... is that Pac was not shot when Floyd dismantled him

you muppets do this before/after every Pac fight LMAO

[aboutfkntime]

FACT: a number of welters could have beaten Thurman


FACT: there is nothing special about beating a guy who would also have lost to a number of other fighters

and yet.....

fans are running around saying that the " achievement " above has catapulted Pac to..... The Greatest of ALL TIME

OF ALL TIME !!


that is utterly ridiculous, you pac-spastics are a hoot

[Blond Beast]

I could not resist putting in my take on this issue of p4p...

I consider Ali the goat..i will not try to justify this as it will veer away from the p4p topic..just to highlight that p4p and goat i consider to be separate topics...

also i don't buy that a fighter automatically takes the top cake over another fighter he beat...

as for the p4p title is a title that is a product of "fantasy".. fitting fighters against the others regardless of weight..then it is very subjective and i may say not really conclusive....

Of course, fighters who were real heavy or skinny... and could not really jump from one weight class to another would be seen as left out if i say we base p4p on weight class titles won...

then the result is facts based...not based on fantasy..

then..pac winning in 8 weight divisions is not fantasy...

just a thought...

I think u pointed out all the right issues. I think Manny is in any argument. But I think people need to remember that someone who started @140 would have to win all the way up to the HW title to get 8 diff weight championships. Manny climbed through the weights but he never made any leaps. Those lowest weight jumps aren’t relative in difficulty to the higher ones. He’s still amazing though.

[aboutfkntime]

I think u pointed out all the right issues. I think Manny is in any argument. But I think people need to remember that someone who started @140 would have to win all the way up to the HW title to get 8 diff weight championships. Manny climbed through the weights but he never made any leaps. Those lowest weight jumps aren’t relative in difficulty to the higher ones. He’s still amazing though.

a good sensible post

that comes down to size/body-type/metabolism..... it has nothing to do with greatness

many great fighters only ever fought in 1 division..... and some of those great fighters are a LOT higher than Pac/Mayweather on the ATG list

also, back in the day..... there were only 8 divisions

there were also..... only 8 titles

we cannot use justification to measure greatness today, that did not exist back when we first started measuring greatness..... which is AT LEAST John L Sullivan

who did you beat, with consideration given to when/how..... nothing else matters..... that way we can compare across era's

[pasawayako]

One and only 8 division champion
one and only 5 div lineal champion
3x FIGHTER OF THE YEAR
FIGHTER OF THE DECADE
OLDEST WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPION
from flyweight champion to jr middleweight champion.


wow just woooow.......

[Erroid]

FACT: a number of welters could have beaten Thurman

FACT: there is nothing special about beating a guy who would also have lost to a number of other fighters

I see you’ve been really invested in this thread, quite emotionally too I might add, and I’m not here to argue the actual topic, but please, you can’t say something is FACT, much less make it bold, when you’re following it up with “could have” and “would also have”. You want to debate others for 20+ pages you might want to keep things honest and unbiased so your argument doesn’t crumble like jenga tower. Call it like it is pal, speculation =/= fact and if you continue to think so you must be one hell of a mental gymnast.

[aboutfkntime]

One and only 8 division champion
one and only 5 div lineal champion
3x FIGHTER OF THE YEAR
FIGHTER OF THE DECADE
OLDEST WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPION
from flyweight champion to jr middleweight champion.


wow just woooow.......

but then... a greater champion Mayweather come along and EASILY beat him

wow, just wooooow

[Curtis Harper]

One and only 8 division champion
one and only 5 div lineal champion
from flyweight champion to jr middleweight champion.


wow just woooow.......

Any names attached to those accomplishments ?!?!?!

[aboutfkntime]

I see you’ve been really invested in this thread, quite emotionally too I might add, and I’m not here to argue the actual topic, but please, you can’t say something is FACT, much less make it bold, when you’re following it up with “could have” and “would also have”. You want to debate others for 20+ pages you might want to keep things honest and unbiased so your argument doesn’t crumble like jenga tower. Call it like it is pal, speculation =/= fact and if you continue to think so you must be one hell of a mental gymnast.

FACT: you took time out of your busy day to tell me that you disagree..... you you did not take time out of your busy day to tell me what you disagree with

I will make it easier, and label the facts.....

FACT #1: a number of welters could have beaten Thurman

FACT #2: there is nothing special about beating a guy who would also have lost to a number of other fighters

which fact do you disagree with, and why..... ?

no way Thurman beats Spence or Crawford, you cannot be serious..... Pac just beat him..... and I would also favor Porter to beat Thurman at this point, Keith has not looked like the same fighter since returning from injury/inactivity

and there is nothing special about beating a guy who would also have lost to a number of other fighters in his division

not 100% convinced that version of Thurman would beat Horn